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Kim Perlow: It's not just a tick box exercise, it has to offer
something that adds value both from a consumer standpoint but
also from an employee standpoint.
Paul Thomas: Welcome to a brand new episode of Starts at the
Top, our podcast about digital leadership and change. I'm Paul
Thomas.
Zoe Amar: And I am Zoe Amar this week is volunteers week in the
UK. And so it's fitting that our guests on the podcast today is
Kim Perlow, CEO of Link Up London, an organisation that
harnesses professional skills for social good through skill
skilled volunteering.
Paul Thomas: So yeah, Link Up's approach struck a chord, a
friend of mine, Sophie started to work for them - we are hoping
to hear from Sophie - started to work for them after volunteering
through Link Up London a few months ago. And it really struck
a chord with me just because of their approach to harnessing
professional skills within organisations rather than the
sort of the old traditional approach to volunteering, which
is, you know, corporate organisations, sending in a
bunch of people to paint a wall or to build a greenhouse out of
plastic bottles are the things that we've all done in the past
Zoe Amar: 100% Paul, and both you and I have been brought
together through many things, but also a shared love of
volunteering. And we're both long standing volunteers for
various organisations, what has been your most memorable
experience as a volunteer?
Paul Thomas: Well, I think since since about about three years
ago, now I decided to approach a local charity that I was part of
a fundraising evening, and they were sort of stood up on stage
saying, this is the help we need. And I thought, well, I can
help with the digital marketing side of this. So stepped up and
said, happy to come in and three, four years later, I'm a
trustee and working with them on a very regular basis across all
of the things that they they are doing in the local, local
community here where I live in Hemel Hempstead, which is
Dacorum, the Dacorum Community Trust. So I think that's the
most memorable one for me was that just by sort of going off
and having a conversation with a charity that was clearly in need
of some skills experience, suddenly led to an opportunity
where I'm hopefully doing some really good stuff with them week
in week out. So that was that's probably it for me. How about
you?
Zoe Amar: Well, I think my most memorable experience was being a
trustee. And I've done, god... it's something like 15 years as
a trustee, across various different boards, I think four
different boards... showing my age... But my most amazing
experience as a trustee has absolutely been serving as a
trustee at Charity digital, recently started my second term.
And it's just such a privilege to volunteer in that way.
Because as he was saying, you get to use your skills. And also
you get to meet lots of interesting people and be
involved in helping shape the future of an organisation. So
every time I go to a board meeting, it sounds cheesy, but I
really do feel very, very fortunate to be able to
volunteer and help that charity.
Paul Thomas: Yeah, really good to be able to do it and even
sort of dragging my family into it. There was an event in the
park recently where we were selling sweets for the charity.
And both my youngest and my wife came along to help sell the
sweets. So you know, so good to just drag people into it and
also the privilege that you have to then introduce other people
and other volunteers to the organisation which I've
hopefully managed to do on more than one occasion. Anyway, Zoe,
this week, as seems to be every week at the moment, there's a
lot of noise in the news about AI again, and he wanted to share
one story.
Zoe Amar: Yes, more AI news following our brief update about
AI regulation last week. So we had some developments from the
Centre for AI safety. And they shared a single sentence
statement. It was signed by leaders from open AI who
obviously have the Chat GPT product, Deep Mind, among other
notable leaders in this space. It's not an especially helpful
statement, I think, because it is simply a one sentence
statement, suggesting some of the risks that AI can pose. And
in fact, it might have been better as a tweet, perhaps, you
know, rather than just a one sentence statement. I think
what's slightly frustrating about this is, it's useful in
the sense that we obviously need to be talking as societies and
in business about the risks and working out how we can better
regulate AI and how we can create more of the right
guardrails around it as it is developed and scaled further, as
Rory Stewart was saying, on the rest is politics podcast, which
is an AI special today, and we'll put put pop a link to that
in the show notes as well. It would be really helpful if these
tech leaders who frankly know more about these tools than
anyone could actually be specific about some of the areas
of risk. And in my view, also have some clear suggestions
about what can be done to mitigate those risks. And for
example, that could be various areas of regulation or different
sectors really focusing on growing skills, or perhaps a
different approach to venture capital or, you know, grant
funding in the case of the charity sector. So I think it'd
be wonderful if they could be a bit more specific about what the
nature of these risks are, the impact they could have, and the
actions that they would like decision makers to take in order
to mitigate those risks.
Paul Thomas: Yeah, it's quite exciting. Actually, I've just on
the site now, the statement itself is, is just this
mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a
global priority alongside other societal scale risks such as
pandemics and nuclear war. So in one sentence, they've set panic
in the way that nobody's seen since Terminator 2: Judgment
Day. And at the bottom of this statement, you can filter all
the signatories by AI scientists and notable figures. I like the
way they just they form a distinction between the two. And
the other thing I really liked about this was in the BBC story
about it was the the good news that Rishi Sunak says, but it'll
be alright. AI is good, as well as, as sort of leading to our
ultimate extinction. So if Rishi is alright with it, then I'm
sure we should be alright with it, too.
Zoe Amar: That's quite interesting, because hasn't
Rishi called recently to have a firmer hand on the regulation?
And obviously, as we said last week, that there's a government
white paper out at the moment, and so it's very timely. So feel
like that's potentially a slightly mixed message there.
But anyway, we'll see what happens next with it.
Paul Thomas: He's essentially saying that there are benefits
to the economy and society, which would would assume that
that's come out of that meeting as well. So he's talks about all
the all the good things that are coming out of AI and it is a
balance, isn't it? There is a number of, you know, I used to
work with an AI organisation who were doing great things with the
RNIB, around support for those with sight loss and blindness.
And you know, there is some great stuff going on, but
equally, we probably do me need to be mindful. Yeah, I might
joke and sort of talk about the stories of science fiction. But
a lot that has been written in science fiction has come to
pass. So we do need to, we do need to keep an eye on an eye on
these things so good that they are flagging it. Not very
helpful that it was a single sentence statement. I don't
think that's the right way to go about it. But then, you know,
what do we know Zoe? We are just two lowly podcasters. Anyway,
just ahead of our conversation with Kim, here's a short case
study from Sophie Bradley. Sophie, who is now working for
lingkup London who started as a volunteer tells us a bit about
her story, and why she thinks link up London is such a great
organisation to work for.
Sophie Bradley: Throughout my professional career, I have
always been involved with charitable organisations,
whether that's as a volunteer on the ground floor, whether that's
as a donor, a fundraiser or to raise awareness about that
charity, but last year something changed. I had a light bulb
moment I became aware of an organisation called link up
London through one of my previous social media marketing
students. And I decided I was going to sign up. The idea of
being able to share my professional skills and for
others to share their professional skills with social
good organisations, which incorporates community groups,
small to medium sized charities, and social enterprises in the
London area. It just seemed so amazing what a wonderful way to
be able to utilise your professional skills to help
others to develop their skills, put in place tools that they may
need to be able to work more effectively so that they can
actually do the work that they are designed to do, which is to
work with the communities that they have always strived to do
more effectively, and build stronger communities. It's just
a win win situation... Gave me so many light bulb moments, I
cannot explain them. I saw that a role became available at Link
Up London to lead on a new programme supporting social good
organisations. I thought yes, let's get on board with this. I
applied fortuitously I was successful. And now we are in
the middle of launching this new programme called the Be Heard
programme where the most amazing marketing and comms
professionals are coming on board. I'm still working
part-time as a freelance social media marketer. The balance
between the two is fantastic. It means that I can support others
and champion others and help to grow strong diverse communities
in the London area whilst continuing to develop my
professional skills in both areas. Absolutely fantastic. And
that's my story.
Paul Thomas: On to our interview with Kim Perlow. Kim Perlow is
the founder and CEO of Link Up London, an organisation that
harnesses professional skills for social good through skilled
volunteering. Link Up, which started in 2016 is committed to
building stronger communities and offering meaningful
volunteer opportunities by connecting skilled professionals
with charitable organisations in areas such as legal finance,
human resources, communications, marketing, data strategy and
organisational development, and much much more. Link Up
developed out of Kim's experience with organisational
development combined with an understanding of the value of
volunteering and some of its challenges from her own
professional experience and personal volunteering with the
goal of providing valuable volunteering opportunities that
fit into busy people's lives. Prior to Link Up, Kim worked for
five years as COO, and then Senior Advisor at the London
based Institute for Strategic Dialogue, the Think Tank and
before that she spent nearly a decade leading and consulting to
a number of civil society development programmes
internationally focused on building the charity sector in
countries of economic transition.
She has experience with organisational development,
volunteer management, cross sector partnerships and grant
making and has focused on issues of philanthropy, corporate
social responsibility, and employee volunteer programmes at
different times throughout her career. Kim, welcome to Starts
at the Top.
Kim Perlow: Thank you so much for having me. Delighted to be
here.
Paul Thomas: You're more than welcome. So we're launching this
episode in volunteers week 2023, which is an annual celebration
of the contribution that millions of people, including
Zoe, and myself and you Kim, make across the UK through
volunteering in their communities. So how do you view
the condition of volunteering in 2023?
Kim Perlow: It's a really interesting question. And
there's a lot of talk about it at the moment, a report just
came out from NCVO called Time well spent, which has made the
claim that volunteering has actually gone down since or in
the last year, so it's gone from 23% of the population
volunteering in the UK down to 60% of the population
volunteering. There's sort of a number of reasons for that. I
mean, I would actually say it's, it's, it's in transition. Some
people are saying it's in crisis, I think actually,
crisis, to be honest, will lead to opportunity. And we're sort
of in this transitional space at the moment of sort of from the
pre pandemic sort of way of volunteering that had always
sort of been the way of doing it to sort of the the space that we
currently find ourselves in.
There's been a changing demographic. So that's one of
the big things is the majority of volunteers had been sort of
the 50 Plus previously and they had sort of been involved have,
in longer term more regular volunteering. And that's
changing, that group actually pulled out of volunteering
during COVID more than any other group and has reentered more
slowly in terms of the voluntary and that is being done. But then
what has happened is you see sort of the younger population
stepping up and from anecdotal information. And from what we've
seen, you definitely see sort of, kind of the mid career sort
of people that we hadn't previously seen signing up in
large numbers getting involved.
And I think the other thing that pandemic did was sort of so many
people went out, it connected people more with their
communities, and people went out to support their communities,
volunteering became accessible for many people, although there
are those examples of people wanting to volunteer and not
being able to, but there was sort of this, this growth of
mutual aid going on, there's all sorts of things happening on the
community level that people could get involved with. And so
it feels like it's sort of there's a, the, the younger
generation sort of was exposed to it in a different way through
that, and we're seeing kind of the trends of, of that sort of
evolving out, I think the other piece that really happened
during and post COVID is, is sort of the virtual space became
an acceptable space for volunteering, a lot of
organisations worked hard to sort of create that space
quickly. And it's not going away. And actually, some people
are finding it to be a much easier way to volunteer. I mean,
for us, we went virtual, as well. And, you know, it makes it
really possible, we now allow people to have opportunities
either in person or in the virtual space, but it really
allows for much more flexibility. And so that space
for volunteering is sort of becoming a more prominent space.
So we actually haven't seen a decrease in the type of work
that we're doing at all, in terms of volunteer signup, we
have seen sort of that the trends, you know, we have seen
the younger, the younger people sort of engaging with us, and
we've seen, we've, we've seen that the virtual space really,
really, really works. Well, I think what they're looking for,
and there's something out there, and you're probably familiar
with it the vision for volunteering, again, by NCVO,
which is sort of a 10 year kind of vision for what volunteering
should become or can become, and sort of how it's evolving at the
moment. And there was discussion last week, sort of on this, and
sort of some of the themes that came out is like this real need
for micro volunteering opportunities. So something
short and sweet that you can get into, but you don't have to have
a long term commitment for maybe less bureaucracy around some of
the volunteering. So make it more accessible, make it easier,
make it possible, which isn't possible in every circumstance
by any stretch of the imagination, because you
probably do need DBS checks and certain things for some types of
volunteering. But there's other ways so it's looking at are
there other ways that people can engage? That is different than
kind of what the way we've traditionally seen and refer to
volunteering.
Zoe Amar: That's very interesting about the rise in
mid career volunteering. What do you think has led to that Kim?
Kim Perlow: So interestingly, I mean, we're seeing it so I, you
know, actually, I say that more from a skilled, voluntary
perspective. So that's what we actually do. And I think we've
really seen the rise in that. And I would say, you know, from
the conversations we've had, both with our volunteers and
sort of, you know, looking at the trends that we're seeing,
it's coming from this understanding sort of that
volunteering, is possible. So I think the problem with the mid
career is people are incredibly busy, right? Like, if that's
when you're sort of on the rise in your career, you're probably
you know, you may be having children, caring
responsibilities come into play, there's all sorts of things. And
so it's actually quite challenging, you know, at the
best of times, to sort of carve out that time to volunteer
unless you're, you know, hugely committed, but you can come up
with every excuse under the sun not to do it, no matter how much
you want to and I think, from COVID, again, sort of that
connection to community, that connection to giving back that
connection to doing something important and meaningful people
really did reconsider their lives a lot. I know what it sort
of feels like we talk about that a lot. But people did step back
and say, you know, where is the meaning and everything I'm doing
so there is a real, there's more of a drive for that potentially.
And I think with the skilled volunteering is becoming clearer
and clearer that you know, this actually is offering career
advantages. It's not just over the skills development involved
in it. It's not a one way. It's not a one way I'm giving my
skills to this organisation. The evidence that we have people
sort of benefiting professionally, from the
experience is huge.
Paul Thomas: And you're you're currently going through the
process of launching a new corporate programme, social
impact solutions, which aims at directly answering that question
the people within organisations with skills that they have to
offer being able to offer them within communities. Can you tell
us a bit more about that programme and how you're aiming
to run it?
Kim Perlow: Yeah, of course. Yeah, we're really excited about
this programme, actually. And it's been a few years in the
making. So the work that we do normally is not, we don't work
specifically with corporates, however, the majority of our
volunteers come from the corporate space, but we're not
in partnerships with companies to bring those volunteers in.
However, you know, there's, there's a huge kind of resource
sitting in these companies that, you know, we're really excited
about trying to figure out how do we mobilise and get those
skills kind of into the surrounding communities and
create more sort of strategic engagement. So actually offering
something to the organisations, the charitable organisations
that working with that goes sort of beyond your traditional kind
of team building or volunteer activity where you're cleaning
the river or painting the fence or whatever it is that you're
doing, but trying to sort of harness those skills and bring
them in a in a sort of a structured way into the
community. So we're really taking we've worked over the
past many years to develop this model of skilled volunteering,
which is not just sort of a platform where we connect
people, but it's very much, we have a very kind of human
approach to this, we talked to all our volunteers, we've talked
to all our organisations, we're always present at initial
matches, we create project plans to help them deliver at which
allows us to then be part of monitoring and supporting along
the way, because we have a clear understanding of what they're
looking to achieve. Our projects, I should say, they're
all short term. So they can be anywhere from a few hours to six
months, but we tend to cap it at six months, you come in and you
deliver something, it makes it feel quite manageable from the
volunteer standpoint. So what we've done with a corporate
programme is really take this model and what we know has
worked and and sort of package it in a way that corporates
could access and get their employees involved. So we have
sort of different options, different ways you can get
involved in a two hour event, a one day event, or sort of a
longer term, three months kind of process that you have teams
working together to support organisations
Paul Thomas: What sort of size of organisations are we talking
about? So on the on the corporate side, we're talking
mainly bigger organisations, I guess, with the sort of fully
fledged programmes, but the charities that the organisations
that people are volunteering into, presumably a much smaller
to medium size. So how does it work?
Kim Perlow: So exactly, I mean, the company is, it's
interesting, and it's a real mix of companies. So that have, you
know, that we're engaging with so some are, are quite large,
and others are, you know, working to design a programme.
And I think this is sort of a you know, it's so not all of
them have an established programme that we're working
with, they're looking at ways that they can engage. I think
skilled volunteering in general is beginning to start sort of
moving up in people's agenda, because they're looking at the
potential for different options for people to volunteer that I
think it's beginning to sort of some companies, not all of them,
but some are beginning to understand that there's sort of
a kind of, not everybody wants to do the same type of thing and
enforce team building is not necessarily a fun and positive
experience for everybody. And that there's other ways to do
this that would feel more authentic to their employees and
actually, and benefit them more. So it's a bit a real range of
companies to be honest. In terms of the organisations that we
work with on the ground, the charitable organisations we work
with on the ground, they are small to medium sized, which
could be you know, there's 168,000 charities registered in
the UK, about 26,000 of them are in London. And you know, about
80% of those or more are small. So the majority of the
organisations out there are quite small they're community
based, small meaning there's different there's different kind
of criteria for small but you know, some will say it's a
million an annual turnover or a million for us it we do work
with one ones that are a million to 5 million, but the majority
are probably around the 100,000 mark in terms of their turnover,
so they do have staff there, and they're, they're doing really
good work in the community. With that said, we work across the
range. So we do work with very micro organisations that are
just starting out some of the bigger ones, but to be honest,
the bigger ones can afford consultants. So this, you know,
isn't necessarily the right space for them.
Zoe Amar: And I know you've talked to Paul before about how
smart use of volunteering can help leaders take a step back
and look at the bigger picture. What is the best way for leaders
to do that, because it's so hard to get the headspace to think
differently Think creatively as a leader, isn't it?
Kim Perlow: I think it's really hard. And I think that one of
the biggest challenge, especially with the size of the
organisations we're working with is just time people are
overworked and under resourced. And I think that's true across
the sector, at the moment that these organisations, there's
been huge demand on them through COVID, Cost of Living crisis,
you know, Ukraine, the invasion of Ukraine, this is all sort of
has had a significant effect on these organisations. And deed is
definitely going up in communities and resources are
going down. So there's a lot of strain on these organisations.
And a lot of them will say, I feel like I'm chasing my tail, I
just need to keep going, you're treading water. And so it is,
it's hard to sort of create that space. But we do work with them
to sort of talk about that, you know, if you can just, you know,
if we can cut out some of that time and bring somebody in to
work with you, that's going to ultimately save a lot of time,
as we all know, right? If we can take that breathing space.
We don't impose anything on these organisations so that we
work toward their priorities. But we will encourage and
interestingly, what we're seeing right now, and it's sort of
these trends throughout the year, so at the beginning of the
year, it's been a lot of craziness that no one's had time
to even think and they're all it's beginning, they're
beginning to have time to think about development. And then if
you can step back, and you can have somebody come in and just
start talking to you asking you questions about what you're
doing, and help you think I mean, that always generates an
interesting time, right? You always helps you think if
somebody from the outside comes in and sort of like, what what
is that you do, right, and you're talking to somebody all
of a sudden, who doesn't, you know, speak your language in the
same way, it really helps you try to sort of work through some
of the issues that you're having. And we hear that a lot.
I mean, the organization's really appreciate having that.
And it's, it's not an easy thing to find. So right in terms of
the way so that actually is out there that exists right now. So
again, you know, for us to be able to offer that to them, to
have somebody who, you know, has had, you know, we have a few,
you know, incredible volunteers out there right now, who
actually are retired, but have had these massive careers, you
know, doing just incredible things, starting, you know, from
startup companies, growing them into sort of major corporations.
And we have another one who, you know, had been a, he actually
started as a surgeon, and then went into kind of managing
research for King's College of Cardiology, and then went into
running hospitals, right. And this great man, he's just
amazing the way he thinks, and you know, he'll go in to these
organisations and sit down with them. It's, I mean, it's huge.
You know, and I feel lucky when I get to have conversations with
them, right? Because we'll start asking those questions. So it's
just trying to help create, helping them think about the
value of that space, and then being able to fall away at the
right time for them in terms of the work that's going on.
Zoe Amar: Yeah, brilliant, and what an amazing base of skills
to tap into, what a broad range of skills to tap into as well.
Kim Perlow: I'm regularly in awe still, of the people that signed
up to volunteer for us, because the it's just incredible to me,
the people who are out there that are willing to do this, and
they come to us again, up till now they've come to us on the
road, not through sort of any corporate programme, but they've
come to us and said, You know, I'm willing to do this. And
there's, there's a huge variety, you know, about 70% of them are
coming from senior leadership, or sort of management roles, and
have significant experience. What has been really
fascinating, however, is that, you know, a lot of people still
have impostor syndrome. And we're hearing this regularly,
people sort of saying, Well, you know, you've gotten so people
will get so narrow in their careers, and they become this
expert, you know, appear that they sort of are like, well, I
can't, you know, it's it's recognising kind of the value of
your skills. And that, you know, even though you're an expert at
one thing, you know, Paul, you're a great example, you're
an expert in digital space, but you're running your own company.
There's so many different parts of or skills, but both of you
actually right, that you could offer that aren't just the
digital space. Right, but you could come in and do strategy,
or you could come in and at least, there's just a lot out
there. And people struggle to recognise that. And I think that
is one of the things that we hear, you know, from, from the
experience is that real valuing of sort of the broader range of
skills they have, as well as valuing the skills themselves,
if you take yourself out of a company that you've been in for
20 years, you know, and apply those skills in a different way,
you can see the value of those skills that you don't
necessarily see in your day to day work. So for example, like
if you're an accountant, and you're in a, you know, an
apartment of 50, right, and you're just one of the many
people churning something out, then you come in and work with
an organisation are able to, you know, probably quite easily for
you restructure their finance system, which is like, just huge
for this organisation, right, and the change that you can make
for them, you begin to really see the value of what you have
to offer. And you can take that back in to the workplace and
people do regularly, it helps them really think slightly
differently.
I think you can probably, you can achieve a bit more as well
through a sort of a simple conversation or volunteering
rather than thinking, actually, I'm out, you know, that's
something that I don't feel comfortable with, or if you've
impostor syndrome is a real thing, right? You know, not just
people try to sort of push it down. It's, it's real. So rather
than thinking, you know, this is this is someone I can help long
term, it's more How can I apply my skills to a simple
conversation or a simple series of conversations, you know,
meeting over coffee, that mentoring, coaching side of what
Zoe and I will do, as you know, sometimes you can't sort of wrap
a project around something, sometimes somebody just needs a
conversation or a helping hand to get them over the hurdle. And
I think that's that's probably a lot of what you're, you're
talking about here. Yes, it's really, it's really interesting.
I've just remembered back to during the pandemic, and Zoe,
I'm not sure whether you were part of this as well. But there
was something I did called Digital candle, which was, I
think it was...
Zoe Amar: Was that smack Collins, Matt Collins, shout
out.
Paul Thomas: Yeah, shout out to Matt. So Matt Collins at
platypus digital who set it up. And that was, I think, I think
the commitment was an hour, you know, an hour's conversation
with somebody that you were you were matched to say, right,
these are my digital marketing experiences, this is my
experience. And you know, somebody would say, Well, this
is what I need help with. And then you'd be matched, I had a
really interesting conversation with someone who I still stay in
touch with now. And it was enough for him to have a
conversation that sort of sparks, as you said, a few ideas
away forwards out of a conundrum that he was in, and then you've
got a real connection that you can can build on moving forward
as well. So sometimes it's the power of just having a
conversation rather than really thinking about how do I delve in
especially, you know, as I said, the examples of going in and
painting a wall or building a greenhouse or something like
that, that doesn't really contribute anything to the
overall organisational strategy.
Kim Perlow: And I think that's really true. I mean, we do have
a number of projects, you know, that are more of a, you know, a
series of conversations, sort of more strategic, and not
necessarily, were creating a new strategy or something like that,
but just more strategic or supporting or mentoring. And we
also run something, actually, that we call flash consulting,
which is sort of that idea of it's an hour conversation, but
it's sort of structured, and they come many organisations
come with kind of a challenge that they're facing at that
moment, and we pair them with a volunteer, and just that our
conversation, you know, that ends with an action plan for the
organisation basically, is enough to really move the number
of them forward. So yeah, I think there's there's so many
different ways I think, goes back to sort of the original
kind of discussion on like, volunteering isn't just one way
of doing some, there's so many different ways you can you can
get involved and share what you know, and help others and it's
finding the right opportunity for you. And I think that for us
as well is you know, and it's how do you fit into busy
schedules, because everyone's busy. And so the way we're
structured is very much about creating opportunities that
allow people to engage in a way that works for their schedules,
and not the other way around. So that we're able to get those
skills in to the organisation. So that could be you know,
they're working at night, they're doing whatever, but it's
based on milestones, so they don't have to be somewhere every
Thursday at three which isn't going to work for them.
Paul Thomas: Yeah and what trends are you noticing? So
there's a lot of a lot of skills out there in the in the
corporate sector. And we just went through in your
introduction talks about a number of them marketing,
digital marketing, finance all sorts of different things.
Wherever, wherever the trends, currently pointing, what are
people asking for help with?
Kim Perlow: So interestingly, at my, my team meeting today, we
were just talking about, right, what do we need to be focused on
and for, like, you know, the seventh week in a row, it's
social media, is the use of the digital space, which you guys
know, well, and I think that COVID, you know, really played a
part in this, although it was coming probably more slowly
previously. But for the sector, they're really still playing,
like they were playing catch up for a fair amount of COVID. And
it was quite reactionary. And now I think it's about trying to
get on top of it and becoming more strategic weather. And so
we're really beginning to see, you know, we've seen a really,
we've always seen, so comms has always been kind of one of the
key areas, because it's interestingly, it's not
resourced as well as other things, right. So it's the area
that in a sense, is hugely important to organisations, but
it's sort of the, it's quite under resourced in terms of what
where organisations are able to place their, their funds and
their focus. So comms is always has been really important. But
social media in the digital space right now is so big, that
we're actually and I think, Paul, you know, this, we're
launching a programme called the Be Heard programme right now,
which is specifically geared toward kind of a more strategic
approach to helping organisations with their
communication. So it's sort of a series of three projects, based
on an a sort of an initial assessment of where they, their
needs are in this space, and then trying to bring different
volunteers in to work with them over the course of a year to
really help them develop this out in a way that that works,
for them and for their own capacity. And I think that's
huge to a lot of these organisations, you know, you can
come in, and people can come in with great ideas and great
experience. But if you come in and offer them something that
you know, is going to require 5000 pounds for them to deliver
what they don't have that 5000 pounds, so you got to come in
and understand the capacity, they have to actually deliver it
and the resources they have available. And so I think that's
one of our volunteers. I mean, it really forces creativity. For
some people, you know, if you're, if you're in a marketing
department, you're used to working with a big budget, that
can sort of solve this problem, all of a sudden, you can't write
and you have to sort of, you know, really think about what
you know, and I think that's where some of the professional
development and the learning comes from always no matter what
level you're at, to really work through some of this. But the
digital space is a is a real demand at the moment.
Zoe Amar: And speaking of that kind of variety of skills, and
also some of the changes that you've seen as well, you
mentioned that lots of organisations are shifting their
CSR agenda towards ESG strategies. So would be great to
hear a bit more from you about what that means for where
charities are seeking to engage with charities, then, based
around that shift from CSR towards ESG.
Kim Perlow: I think it's really around the idea that CSR... CSR
started in the 1970s, as a sort of a major is an idea and built,
but it never was able to fully integrate into companies,
business strategies, and you know, some companies do it
really well. And they were able to, but the majority, it was
sort of it was always sort of running alongside it, it was the
nice to have, it was great for the marketing team, maybe you
got to tick the box that you had done it, that just going to help
you with something. But it wasn't really part of the
company. And I think what ESG is trying to do is build upon that
and really make it more a strategic part of the work that
a company is doing, it becomes part of the business case, part
of their strategy. And I think that, you know, is in reaction
to, you know, the continually major crisis that are out in the
world, people are demanding it, they want a solution. So it's
not just we're gonna go out and make money. Now we're gonna go
out like that, how is that going to affect the climate, all these
major crises that are out there, that that the companies are
beginning to be demanded by consumers and employees to pay
attention to and so it's sort of this trend is reactionary, in
that sense. I think what it's also looking at is, it's making
it more measurable. It's focusing on impact, it's making
you sort of you need to be able to show what you've actually
done as a company. And so for the work we're doing, I mean, it
means that they're looking you know, company views are now
needing to find more, sort of, it's not just a tick box
exercise anymore, it has to be more meaningful, it has to offer
something that adds value, both from a consumer standpoint, but
also from an employee standpoint. And so I think those
connections, and again, that's sort of going to be the
transition slightly from the painting the fence to other
activities, it doesn't always have to be skilled volunteering,
but there's other ways you can engage with organisations that
really meet their needs, you need to understand what they
need, not just what you need, right and create something that
works for both. There's there's so many really interesting, you
know, examples out there, when a company just really starts
thinking about and working with an organisation to identify how
they could do something together, that really makes a
huge difference to both of them, not just to one or the other,
Zoe Amar: Wanted to ask about big help out, obviously, huge,
high profile campaign about encouraging more people to get
involved in volunteering. What's your take on that campaign? And
do you think it's going to lead to long term change around
interest in volunteering?
Kim Perlow: Good question. I mean, I know there's been a lot
of talk about it. And I know that, you know, if you go onto
their website, they say 6 million people got involved,
which is incredible, if you think about some of the stats
that are coming out about sort of the numbers of people that
were involved in COVID, which is about 12 million. So that's,
that's a lot of people, that's 6 million in terms of volunteering
on the day. And I think that, you know, there's, it feeds into
this idea that there's really been a, you know, there's this
decrease in volunteering, and people are looking for how to,
you know, organisations are looking for how do we get more
volunteers, involved and engaged. So I don't think
there's ever anything wrong with raising the visibility of that.
And, you know, this was a big opportunity to do it. I, you
know, I know, there's been a lot of debate about connecting it to
the coronation versus not and, you know, there's all sorts of
different things, but in and of itself, you know, I think it
offers opportunity, I think it's sort of about what happens next
with it. So some organisations have on their own initiative,
you know, taking it forward and tried to turn it into, you know,
a connection to volunteer week and sort of building upon
because Volunteer Week is coming up, right, so that that month
that using this month to really grow, a number of organisations
used it, you know, just as a way to provide information sessions,
about their volunteering to engage more volunteers. So if
it, if there's a way to continue it, if it can become a sort of
an annual activity that does tie into volunteer week or, or it's
about raising the awareness is great people need to, or
organisations need volunteers, and there's got to be a lot of
ways to ways to help people find them. This is potentially one
way of doing that. It'd be interesting to see, you know,
and I'm not sure anyone will be tracking this, to be honest, but
you know, from this experience, are, you know, from the
organisations that had volunteers, do any of them, you
know, translate into longer term volunteers? Are they people that
stay engaged? Or is it a one off? Do they get more involved
maybe just as a funder donor or supporter or whatnot, but has it
provided kind of a value to that organisation? In some way? So I
think it's, you know, it's it's hard to, it's really hard to to
know. But I don't think anything that raises the visibility of it
as a bad thing, necessarily. It would be more about the
longevity of it, as you said, and I think that's hugely
important, because a one off is going off. So how do you turn it
into something that's more substantial? And I'd be curious
what your thoughts are, though? I mean, were you involved in it?
Zoe Amar: No, I wasn't, I mean, I know quite a lot of people who
were involved in it. It was great to see the charity sector
getting so much coverage and suddenly being a big national
news story consistently. So I was really proud of the sector
for that. As you say, I'm very interested to see where this
goes in the long run, whether they can sustain that growth and
interest in volunteering. I really hope they can because I
think that volunteering has been so instrumental to how I develop
my skills and my career. I think that Paul would probably say
something similar.
Paul Thomas: That was my experience of, I did a
volunteering, exercise, if you like in in Grant Thornton, where
it was a local organisation, a local charity, who had a series
of local charity shops and a team of us went and worked in
the shop for for one day did the sort of the traditional thing
where you turn up and you disappear at the end of the day,
however, I got involved in a conversation with somebody from
the communications team who was telling me about, well, these
are the challenges that we have. And I said, Well, why don't I
pop in and try and help you. And then I was sort of in and out of
that organisation for about two years, on and off happily,
helping them with things like social media and marketing
strategy and communication strategies and stuff like that.
So you just need to be there. And you need to ask the
questions, I think sometimes is the answer. I guess it's ironic
isn't it's a bit weird to say it, but does it mean I did that
open up as well opportunities for another generation, but a
generation that really, as a know, doesn't have doesn't
really engage or it's a tough thing isn't the sort of the
engagement levels around the coronation. I was stood in a
field volunteering for my, the charity that I'm the trustee of
I was in our local park, watching this on a screen. And
there were a mixture of people in the in the park, it was
raining, were extra people in the park, but it was it was
families but with young children. So it was young
children that had been sort of forced into go to the park and
sit in the rain and watch the the coronation on the big
screen. But there was a severe gap, I guess, with with sort of
younger volunteers or younger people that might sort of look
at that and look at the opportunity over that weekend
and, and get involved. So yeah, just be how it how it sort of
ties in, I guess, with the the overall sense of of that event.
And as you said, tying it in annually with something that's a
bit more focused on the opportunity of volunteering, I
think is probably a very, very smart move, because I'm not
sure. How will it connected more generally, we're talking of
young people and the next generation, this is a generation
that's now sort of entering the workplace that is, I mean,
demanding more, they want to work goes back to your original
point about locked down and the changes we made, we sort of
wanted to start working more locally, we wanted to work with
organisations or we wanted to be more community focused, add real
value to the places we live in, and then the communities we live
in, in the work that we do. So what's your experience? And how
do you how do you look at this new generation entering the
workplace and what they want from their employers? Is that
changing your approach at Link Up? Are you having to sort of go
after that generation? Or is that generation coming to you?
Kim Perlow: Yeah, good question. I mean, I think youth
volunteering, and in general is sort of a whole a whole
conversation on its own, because I know there's there's
challenges and it is one of the areas that there's really
discussion about how do we get the youth kind of engaged in
voluntary and more strategic ways, but in answer to, to this,
I think it's been really interesting for us. So we are
seeing more and more of them through COVID and beyond finding
us. But you know, there's a real drive in many of them. So it's
interesting, from a volunteering standpoint, maybe they're not as
engaged. But from a social justice standpoint, there's a
lot of passion about, you know, social impact, and doing things
that are good and climate change, and sort of making sure
that, you know, your company is holding true to the values that
claims so you know, you come in being told something, and they
want to see that being delivered. And we all know, they
are very happy to pick up and go to another company, if they
don't see it. There's there's much more movement within this
generation. But what we are seeing is that in a number of
cases, that they've come and volunteered with us, and they're
taking it back to their companies and pushing and saying
you need to get involved in this, you need to do this, you
need to we want to see more opportunities like this, which
has been really, really interesting for us to you know,
that they're, they're really sort of looking to be heard
around it. And so I think there is a I mean, it's, it's, it's an
interesting, it's a really interesting generation to be
engaged with, but I do think because of, of sort of, you
know, the past few years, combined with sort of this real
drive from them for a sort of social engagement, we're really
seeing them sort of start getting more involved in these
types of opportunities, that sort of the types that we're
offering and I'm sure others are too but that are you know, that
are really offering them something meaningful and that
they feel like they're able to take Make a real a real
difference and be connected to their community. So we, you
know, our feedback 90, 94%, you know, will tell us that as a
result of their project with us, they do feel, you know, that
they've really contributed to the community. And, you know,
also, I mean, I think along those lines, you know, we get
91% will talk about skills development, and you know, and
all the different pieces of that, be it communications or
leadership, or just the different opportunities, or
valuing, or seeing your skills in a different way, or actually
learning, thinking about things differently. And then 94%, will
also talked about sort of issues around wellbeing, and it does,
you know, we know volunteering in general, there's sort of a
real, kind of the the reason people engage with it, right is
you want to most people say they want to, you know, they want to
make a difference, they want to do something they want to
contribute, they want to give back. And you know, and we
definitely see that coming through quite regularly, as
well. But it's about you know, it's your the well being is
being affected people are feeling more confident, they're
feeling that they have, they're feeling happier, they're feeling
that they have to unities in the future. It's really interesting,
the feedback that we're getting around that, as well. So I think
there is a it's an interesting generation. And I think there's
a huge potential and possibilities.
Paul Thomas: It's great, we'll have to dig out the stats, but
there's a there is a stat that I saw recently, we can put it in
the show notes, but it's it's a stat that talks about the the
impact or the positive impact on volunteers, turning up at
Parkrun and, and helping Parkrun on sessions run on a Saturday
morning versus the actual the runners that have the huge
impact on the people that are turning up to volunteer. But
we'll we'll figure that one out. Thank you so much for for your
time. It's great to hear what Link Up is doing and what you're
achieving. Where can people find you whether they're Gen Z or
leaders of charities looking for help or or, or leaders in big
organisations looking to do things differently? How best,
How is it best to connect with you and link up?
Kim Perlow: Well, our website is a great starting point, in terms
of what we're up to, and just getting a better sense of who we
are, which is its linkuplondon.org. But you know,
I'm very happy for people to reach out directly. And we if
you're on our website, you can you can easily apply either to
volunteer or to engage with us as an organisation or if you're
a company that's interested in engaging as well. We are a small
but very responsive team. And so we do you get back, we feel as I
said strongly about the human interaction piece of it. And so
we are engaged with the with the sort of the different people we
work with. And I would just say, you know, from a call to action
sort of standpoint, that you know, I think all skills are
valid, valuable, people need to recognise that they have
something to offer. And I think looking at volunteering, and
outside of the traditional lens of I'm gonna go out and work in
the food bank, which there's nothing wrong with that at all.
But that there's, there's these, you know, these other ways of
doing it, and that organisations as well are learning about this
other way. It's not, it's not natural for them either. So
there's there's sort of a lot of opportunity out there for people
to engage and use their skills and think about, you know, how
they, how they can contribute and get back through them.
Paul Thomas: Thank you so much to Kim for coming on to the
podcast and sharing her views on volunteering. If you'd like to
find more of the links to Link Up London's website will be in
the show notes. And Kim has also suggested you can directly
connect with her on LinkedIn, she'd be more than happy to talk
to you.
Zoe Amar: Next up in a couple of weeks is our conversation with
Donna White of the Prince's Trust, who will be discussing
how your organisation can best market itself online during a
cost of living crisis. It's a great conversation. We can't
wait to share it with you. In the meantime, you can find us on
Twitter, we're at at Starts at the Top one. And you can also
email us at startsatthetop@gmail.com
Paul Thomas: And if you listen to us on Apple podcasts or any
way you can rate and review, please do it really, really
helps us with our reach and getting in front of more
listeners. So we'd love you to leave us a review if you can.
And we'll see you again in a couple of weeks.
Zoe Amar: See
Zoe Amar: you soon. Thanks for listening